Buenos Aires, 16 February 2012

CF: Based on your time in Haiti and the devastating earthquake there, which would you say are the major problems that have been detected, which of them are urgent, and for which of them could there be a short-term solution?

RM: At the risk of surprising, I would say that the major problem and which is intimately related to the long delayed development of Haiti, is political. It is what Jean Dominique, the greatest Haitian twentieth century journalist, described as ‘a despotic state… but weak.’

In my understanding, only a Great National Agreement could be a suitable way to unblock the situation, an agreement that establishes the conditions for governance along the lines of the Moncloa agreements – using this reference as an illustration only – that allowed the founding of a modern and democratic Spain following the Franco dictatorship.

That is the message that the Madrid Club left in its recent visit here and it is what I have tried to get across on different occasions in my participation at the meetings of the UNASUR ministers.

It has to do with the building on solid foundations of a legally constituted state, which requires, among other things, that the state fulfills its obligations in the fight against impunity. It would be deceiving if the reaching of an agreement for governance on the basis of ‘forgive and forget’ were to be sought for.

CF: What is needed to react against the impunity so firmly established in Haiti?

RM: I believe that that is a task for more than one generation. But there needs to be a starting point.

As an immediate step I am proposing an international gathering on the fight against impunity in Haiti. It must be made clear that when I speak of impunity I am referring to the lack of investigation, processing and punishment of the perpetrators and accomplices of serious violations of human rights that constitute crimes against humanity and which because of their nature do not expire, such as those committed during the Duvalier dictatorship.

From an intellectual and moral perspective, the gathering could be useful for unblocking that complex matter of impunity. As a result of that initiative a Haitian Institute for Investigation and Training in Human Rights could be created, which, through UNASUR, could be linked to similar institutions in South America.

The detailed proposal can be found in the last report by the UNASUR Technical Secretariat in Haiti to the UNASUR Council of Delegates meeting in December, 2011, held in Rio de Janeiro.

CF: From a historical perspective and then following the recent drama, how would you define UNASUR’s role in Haiti, and in comparison to those assumed by other countries and organizations?

RM: UNASUR’s role in Haiti is that of the SOUTH-SOUTH cooperation, i.e., one that seeks to avoid interfering in the political sphere of the country. It is a cooperation that tries to contribute to the building of sovereignty; a cooperation acting together with the government of the host country. It is intended to be a cooperation that will make it possible for UNASUR to be perceived as a ‘presence of a friend’ in Haiti today.

Of course, this is not an easy task and we do not pretend to always meet such high objectives. But we believe that it is only appropriate that the measuring stick be set that high. We think that it is necessary to avoid what in Haiti is often called ‘cacophony’, meaning the autonomous actions on the part of the international community actors in the area of development. That is why we believe that the government should centralize and coordinate the international cooperation. Many recite that but not all work that way.

CF: I would like to consider as being problematic the way in which the governments of the region and the members of UNASUR take decisions about cooperation with Haiti, including participating in and about the MINUSTAH: To what degree is there civil society participation or control in the decision making processes, if any? It would seem from my research on the matter that they are state policies but without participation or interest on the part of the ordinary citizens.

RM: The members of UNASUR have in a swift and agile manner taken decisions having to do with Haiti, which is the characteristic thus far of its international action. Even before the agreement constituting UNASUR came into effect, it had carried out significant international actions. I have often used the illustration of the Cid Campeador ‘winning battles after being dead.’ I have contrasted that image from history or legend with that of UNASUR fighting battles before it was born. As a matter of fact, I was entrusted with the investigating of the Pando massacre in Bolivia shortly after it had occurred in 2008, before the agreement constituting UNASUR had come into effect.

The spirit of UNASUR is one of making international relations highly democratic, proof of which is its democratic clause, perhaps the most advanced in the world in a regional integration treaty.

The technical cooperation programs are approved by the governments of UNASUR, through their delegates, foreign affaire ministers, and their heads of state and governments.

Of course, I do not want to paint a pretty picture of a complex panorama of light and shadows. The real contribution made by UNASUR is more a qualitative rather than a quantitative one. Given what still needs to be done, one could think that what has been achieved are only bits of development, and that is largely correct. Furthermore, the UNASUR Technical Secretariat in Haiti is really an operation financed by one country, Argentina, which has also provided its essential human resources. For its part, Ecuador does likewise with the Military Engineers Corps stationed especially in the Haitian department of Artibonita. The lack of a budget by UNASUR and the fact that the operations of the UNASUR Technical Secretariat in Haiti are maintained by particular countries and not by UNASUR as a whole is a limitation but does not take away from the value of those contributions.

Your affirmation that the assistance given to Haiti arises out of government policies without the participation of the citizens is, in my understanding, only partially correct. As a matter of fact, in Argentina for example the issues surrounding Haiti have drawn the attention of politically oriented social sectors whose influence cannot be ignored. The same is happening in other countries of the region. Continuing with the desire of being realistic and not idealizing the situation, I need to say that that attention is a critical sign and leads to the requesting that the Argentinean troops, and eventually the Latin American, be withdrawn from Haiti, which in my judgment would be a considerable mistake.

Haiti undoubtedly began a democratic process more than twenty years ago. In 1990 Jean Bertrand Aristide won the presidential elections with 67% of the votes, in an honest and transparent process that set a precedent in that country.

Although Aristide was overthrown by a bloody military coup seven months after he had taken office, his election meant that Haiti was part of that vast process of democracy characterized by civil and political rights spreading forcefully throughout different regions of the world.

That ‘democratic transition in Haiti’ as it is so often called, experienced steps forward as well as setbacks but it allowed a constitutional president, René Preval, to complete two periods of office and invest another constitutional president with the presidential sash. That had never occurred before in the country.

Likewise, there were no cases of torture, extrajudicial executions or forced disappearances during the Preval administrations. What would be normal in a legally constituted state was also new in Haiti.

CF: In my understanding, the great challenge today is can this process of democracy be maintained, despite its numerous defects, or is there now a conservative process of restoration?

RM: Prophecies abound in that over diagnosed country. I do not want to make yet one more. I believe that the destiny of Haiti is in the hands of its children and the powers that are threatening it are the same that the progressive governments of South America are confronting with courage and a strong political will.

Lastly, Haiti, the first independent republic of our America, has had a destiny of struggling against adversity at whatever the cost, summed up in the phrase: ‘Haiti you are called to the impossible.’

* Interviewer’s note: ALC is grateful to Ambassador Mattarollo and his team in Haiti for this interview. This series of articles on the South American intervention, solidarity and cooperation with Haiti, is done with the support and accompaniment of the Church World Service Regional Office for Latin America and the Caribbean (www.cwslac.org). The Latin America and Caribbean Communication Agency (www.alcnoticias.net) is solely responsible for the content of these articles.

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